Reverse psychology?
Reverse psychology?
Reverse psychology - the outcome where advocacy of one course of action persuades someone to do the opposite.
<r><SIZE size="85"><s></s><URL url="http://stajniaequila.blogspot.com/"><s></s><COLOR color="#80BF00"><s></s>★Stajnia Equila<e></e></COLOR><e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="http://equimechana.blogspot.com/"><s></s>EQUIMECHANA - o biomechanice ruchu konia<e></e></URL><br/>
<I><s></s>"The horse already understands the human better than the human will ever understand the horse."<e></e></I> D.Bennet<e></e></SIZE></r>
Julia z Orla
11-03-2008, 07:40 PM #1Reverse psychology - natykam się na ten termin ostatnio dość często i postanowiłam w końcu dowiedzieć się co to takiego. Jest odpowiednik tego terminu w języku polskim? I co to takiego ta "odwrotna" psychologia? W zastosowaniu do szkolenia koni rzecz jasna :wink:
Reverse psychology - the outcome where advocacy of one course of action persuades someone to do the opposite.
<r><SIZE size="85"><s></s><URL url="http://stajniaequila.blogspot.com/"><s></s><COLOR color="#80BF00"><s></s>★Stajnia Equila<e></e></COLOR><e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="http://equimechana.blogspot.com/"><s></s>EQUIMECHANA - o biomechanice ruchu konia<e></e></URL><br/>
<I><s></s>"The horse already understands the human better than the human will ever understand the horse."<e></e></I> D.Bennet<e></e></SIZE></r>
Nie do końca rozumiem o co w tym chodzi, al ejutro mam psych. rozwojową to o to popytam i sobie odniesiemy to do koni xD
O tu drugi artykuł z Horse&Rider, numer z listopada 2004 napisany przez Boba Avile: " One way I keep my seasoned show horses thinking positively about being in the show pen is to make them work harder outside it than in it. For instance, at a schooling show, I'll ask a lot of a horse in the warm-up pen, then let him cruise around and relax in the show ring.That'll make him look forward to his time in there, rather than dread it. This is a strategy you can use for any event. For example, with a showmanship horse, really drill him in the warm-up area. Make him stop. Make him turn around. Make him back up.Then lead him into the show pen and let him stand and breathe. It's like taking a kid that skips school, and making him work—hard—around the house. Pretty soon, the child is going to want to be in school! That's why I find schooling shows to be so valuable. They give me the opportunity to allow my horses to take it easy in the show pen. (For more information, see "Show-Biz Tips," in Shouj Smart, Part n, October '04.) That's how you get longevity."\
Jak będę mieć czas to to jutro przetłumaczę. Wydaje mi się to niesympatyczne dla koni, nawet jeśli skuteczne - bo wychodzi na to, że trzeba konia pomęczyć na rozprężali po to by lubił plac konkursowy. Tzn widzę tu jak to ma niby działac(choć poptyam jeszcze jutro prowadzących), ale wydaje mi się to w odniesieniu do koni kolejną metodą, która może powodować u nich stres i ból - choć z drugiej strony na pewno to można zastosować jakoś pozytywnie, tylko nie wiem jak, nie do końca łapie sens tego
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"Reverse psychology--telling your child he shouldn't or can't do something you do want him to do--is a brilliant parenting tactic. Your toddler feels like he's getting his way, but you still get yours. It won't work every time, and it's best used sparingly, but it just might give you some smoother meals ("No broccoli for you!") or mornings ("Can you really put on your boots by yourself?"). Just don't try it in situations involving safety or aggressive behavior."
Nie do końca rozumiem o co w tym chodzi, al ejutro mam psych. rozwojową to o to popytam i sobie odniesiemy to do koni xD
O tu drugi artykuł z Horse&Rider, numer z listopada 2004 napisany przez Boba Avile: " One way I keep my seasoned show horses thinking positively about being in the show pen is to make them work harder outside it than in it. For instance, at a schooling show, I'll ask a lot of a horse in the warm-up pen, then let him cruise around and relax in the show ring.That'll make him look forward to his time in there, rather than dread it. This is a strategy you can use for any event. For example, with a showmanship horse, really drill him in the warm-up area. Make him stop. Make him turn around. Make him back up.Then lead him into the show pen and let him stand and breathe. It's like taking a kid that skips school, and making him work—hard—around the house. Pretty soon, the child is going to want to be in school! That's why I find schooling shows to be so valuable. They give me the opportunity to allow my horses to take it easy in the show pen. (For more information, see "Show-Biz Tips," in Shouj Smart, Part n, October '04.) That's how you get longevity."\
Jak będę mieć czas to to jutro przetłumaczę. Wydaje mi się to niesympatyczne dla koni, nawet jeśli skuteczne - bo wychodzi na to, że trzeba konia pomęczyć na rozprężali po to by lubił plac konkursowy. Tzn widzę tu jak to ma niby działac(choć poptyam jeszcze jutro prowadzących), ale wydaje mi się to w odniesieniu do koni kolejną metodą, która może powodować u nich stres i ból - choć z drugiej strony na pewno to można zastosować jakoś pozytywnie, tylko nie wiem jak, nie do końca łapie sens tego
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Ale "odwrotna psychologia" to dużo więcej, niż tylko takie sposoby, jak opisuje Avila. To też pójście po konia na łąkę i położenie się w trawie. Nie "łapiesz" konia, a próbujesz go zaintrygować. To poproszenie konia o mniej, niż się spodziewa - żeby z niego więcej entuzjazmu do pracy wydobyć. To rozpoczęcie od ćwiczeń w ruchu, jeśli koń się wierci przy czyszczeniu (zamiast go tylko strofować: stój, stój, stój, nie wierć się, stój, nie grzeb nogą, stój, robicie coś dynamicznego a czyszczenie jest połączone z odpoczynkiem po). I tak dalej.
<t>Teolinek (You'll never shine if you don't glow.)</t>
Klara Naszarkowska
11-04-2008, 11:04 AM #3Dlaczego stres i ból? Przecież te konie i tak trenują, i tak odpoczywają - zmienia się tylko miejsce, gdzie to się dzieje. A wszystko po to, żeby je przygotować do przyszłej "pracy". Łatwiej ją wykonywać w mniejszym stresie, na spokojnie, łatwiej, kiedy się dobrze kojarzy.
Ale "odwrotna psychologia" to dużo więcej, niż tylko takie sposoby, jak opisuje Avila. To też pójście po konia na łąkę i położenie się w trawie. Nie "łapiesz" konia, a próbujesz go zaintrygować. To poproszenie konia o mniej, niż się spodziewa - żeby z niego więcej entuzjazmu do pracy wydobyć. To rozpoczęcie od ćwiczeń w ruchu, jeśli koń się wierci przy czyszczeniu (zamiast go tylko strofować: stój, stój, stój, nie wierć się, stój, nie grzeb nogą, stój, robicie coś dynamicznego a czyszczenie jest połączone z odpoczynkiem po). I tak dalej.
<t>Teolinek (You'll never shine if you don't glow.)</t>
Sprytne to - powoduje, że koń robi to co ty chcesz, będąc nieświadomym twojego tricku zastosowanemu, po to by to zachowanie spowodować. A czy powszechne w jeździectwie stwianie koniowi pozoru, że sa dwie drogi wyjścia, ale tak naprawdę powodowanie, żeby wybrał tę przez nas pożądaną będzie też się mieściło w tej odwrotnej psychologii? CZy już nie?
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Zaczynam to bardziej rozumieć Sprytne to - powoduje, że koń robi to co ty chcesz, będąc nieświadomym twojego tricku zastosowanemu, po to by to zachowanie spowodować. A czy powszechne w jeździectwie stwianie koniowi pozoru, że sa dwie drogi wyjścia, ale tak naprawdę powodowanie, żeby wybrał tę przez nas pożądaną będzie też się mieściło w tej odwrotnej psychologii? CZy już nie?
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I o podanie jeszcze kilku przykładów, łatwiej będzie sobie zakodować
<r><SIZE size="85"><s></s><URL url="http://stajniaequila.blogspot.com/"><s></s><COLOR color="#80BF00"><s></s>★Stajnia Equila<e></e></COLOR><e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="http://equimechana.blogspot.com/"><s></s>EQUIMECHANA - o biomechanice ruchu konia<e></e></URL><br/>
<I><s></s>"The horse already understands the human better than the human will ever understand the horse."<e></e></I> D.Bennet<e></e></SIZE></r>
Julia z Orla
11-06-2008, 06:56 PM #5Jak ktoś ma jakieś artykuły na ten temat, czy jakiekolwiek inne wywody, to ja bardzo poproszę I o podanie jeszcze kilku przykładów, łatwiej będzie sobie zakodować
<r><SIZE size="85"><s></s><URL url="http://stajniaequila.blogspot.com/"><s></s><COLOR color="#80BF00"><s></s>★Stajnia Equila<e></e></COLOR><e></e></URL><br/>
<URL url="http://equimechana.blogspot.com/"><s></s>EQUIMECHANA - o biomechanice ruchu konia<e></e></URL><br/>
<I><s></s>"The horse already understands the human better than the human will ever understand the horse."<e></e></I> D.Bennet<e></e></SIZE></r>
So when a horse does something you don't want, steal the thought from him and make it look like you're asking him to do it. Pretty soon the horse is going to loose interest in the bad behavior. When he thinks its your idea, then he's going to want to NOT do it anymore. Let's see how you can apply this technique to some common horse problems.
1.Your Horse Drags on the Lead line
You've seen it a thousand times. You or someone else is walking a horse through the arena on a halter and lead and the horse is walking along, but is just a tad slow causing the lead line to drag. The person walking the horse responds by trying to pull the horse forward or making the horse shift his weight to the side. Those methods might work in the short term (well provided you can win a tug-of-war match with a horse) but they aren't going to teach the horse anything. To permanently eliminate the behavior you want to steal the idea and make it your own, and get the horse to put more energy into the unwanted behavior. Why does this work? Horses are lazy. They want to put minimal energy into anything so by putting them in a position where they have to put more energy into an unwanted behavior, its going to loose its appeal.
OK so you're leading a horse along and he's dragging on the rope. Where is the horse putting his energy? He is thinking BACKWARDS. So instead of trying to pull on the rope or egg him forward, turn around and wiggle the rope side to side vigorously and ask him to back up. If you're firm, the horse is going to have to back up. So now we've taken his idea, directing energy backwards, and made it our own. Then we've multiplied it, taken the amount of energy in going backwards up two or three notches. You think the horse is going to like this? No he ain't. Do this a few times and see how much your horse drags while leading.
2.You can't Catch your horse
You walk out into a field with a halter and lead line. Your horse lets you get within say ten feet, takes one look at you and takes off. Feeling frustrated, you go get a bucket of grain or some carrots and beg your horse to come to you. Or you chase your horse around like a mad fool.
There is a better way. The thought we want to steal in this case is being separated. The horse is blowing you off like someone you wanted to date in high school that thought you were a dweeb, but deep down they wanted to go out with you. We're going to do the same thing that works in dating. We're going to turn the tables and blow the horse off. Instead of heading out with a bucket of treats, just go out with your halter and lead line. Walk towards your horse. When you get the first indication he is going to move off, you turn around and walk away. So we've taken his thought-wanting to be apart from you, and made it our own by showing him we are going to decide to be apart from him first. Do this a few times and you're going to find you can get a lot closer to your horse and suddenly he is going to find your company more desirable. Note: It takes some skill to move away from the horse at the right moment, so be patient and practice.
3.Your Horse Won't Lower His Head
Asking a horse to lower his head is a great way to teach the horse to enter a more relaxed state on command. Step to the left side of the horse, and place your left hand at the point where the lead line is connected to the halter, and place your right hand on top of your horse's head. Pull down with your left hand and apply pressure with your right hand. When he lowers his head below the poll, release the pressure and let him relax. The first time you do this, your horse might resist. If he is resisting, you will feel the resistance as pressure against your right hand. So where is he directing his energy? Once again, backwards. So turn his thought into yours and ask him to back up 4 or 5 steps. This puts an energy cost in for the horse each time he resists.
4. Your Horse won't give you his feet.
You pick up the foot of your horse, and he fights to put it down. This time we are going to steal his thought and make the idea of putting his foot down our own. The first step is to pick up the foot of your horse and find out exactly how long he will let you hold his foot and make a mental note of it. Suppose its two seconds. You find this out by counting one-one thousand, two-one thousand and then your horse starts struggling. That's not enough time to clean his feet, much less trim them. To get him to allow us to hold his foot any length of time we want we're going to apply the reverse psychology technique and make putting the foot down our idea.
Start by holding the foot for only 1 second. Pick it up, hold it, even stroke his lower leg, then put the foot down assertively so that he knows you decided to put it down. Do this a few times, and then add an additional second. After several tries he is going to be pretty comfortable letting you hold his feet for 2-3 seconds. So then push it to 4 seconds. But each time you decide to put the foot down, you do it (don't let him) and you do it assertively, maybe even with some slightly exaggerated motion. The idea is to do it so that its your idea to put the foot down. Soon enough, your horse will be letting you handle his feet for as long as you like.
5.Your horse Puts his front feet in the trailer, but won't go any further
If your horse won't get in a trailer, steal his thought by asking him to get out of the trailer. Like catching, you're going to have to learn to read your horse and sense his muscle movements so you know he is about to make a move to back out of the trailer, or start showing signs of discomfort. At the instant he does, then ask him to back out of the trailer.
6.You are leading your horse and ask him to stop, but he takes one or two extra steps
If your horse doesn't stop right away, use psychology to convince him that he isn't really the one looking to take the extra steps. Watch him closely and match your steps with his. Then ask for a stop, and as he begins to take those extra steps, you do it with him. After seeing this a few times your horse is going to think you've gotten wacky and you're the one asking for the extra steps. At that point he will stop taking extra steps when you ask him to stop.
http://gentlenaturalhorseman.blogspot.com
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Przyklady konkretnych zachowan z internetu (zrodlo na dole). Po ang, jak w powyzszych postach.
So when a horse does something you don't want, steal the thought from him and make it look like you're asking him to do it. Pretty soon the horse is going to loose interest in the bad behavior. When he thinks its your idea, then he's going to want to NOT do it anymore. Let's see how you can apply this technique to some common horse problems.
1.Your Horse Drags on the Lead line
You've seen it a thousand times. You or someone else is walking a horse through the arena on a halter and lead and the horse is walking along, but is just a tad slow causing the lead line to drag. The person walking the horse responds by trying to pull the horse forward or making the horse shift his weight to the side. Those methods might work in the short term (well provided you can win a tug-of-war match with a horse) but they aren't going to teach the horse anything. To permanently eliminate the behavior you want to steal the idea and make it your own, and get the horse to put more energy into the unwanted behavior. Why does this work? Horses are lazy. They want to put minimal energy into anything so by putting them in a position where they have to put more energy into an unwanted behavior, its going to loose its appeal.
OK so you're leading a horse along and he's dragging on the rope. Where is the horse putting his energy? He is thinking BACKWARDS. So instead of trying to pull on the rope or egg him forward, turn around and wiggle the rope side to side vigorously and ask him to back up. If you're firm, the horse is going to have to back up. So now we've taken his idea, directing energy backwards, and made it our own. Then we've multiplied it, taken the amount of energy in going backwards up two or three notches. You think the horse is going to like this? No he ain't. Do this a few times and see how much your horse drags while leading.
2.You can't Catch your horse
You walk out into a field with a halter and lead line. Your horse lets you get within say ten feet, takes one look at you and takes off. Feeling frustrated, you go get a bucket of grain or some carrots and beg your horse to come to you. Or you chase your horse around like a mad fool.
There is a better way. The thought we want to steal in this case is being separated. The horse is blowing you off like someone you wanted to date in high school that thought you were a dweeb, but deep down they wanted to go out with you. We're going to do the same thing that works in dating. We're going to turn the tables and blow the horse off. Instead of heading out with a bucket of treats, just go out with your halter and lead line. Walk towards your horse. When you get the first indication he is going to move off, you turn around and walk away. So we've taken his thought-wanting to be apart from you, and made it our own by showing him we are going to decide to be apart from him first. Do this a few times and you're going to find you can get a lot closer to your horse and suddenly he is going to find your company more desirable. Note: It takes some skill to move away from the horse at the right moment, so be patient and practice.
3.Your Horse Won't Lower His Head
Asking a horse to lower his head is a great way to teach the horse to enter a more relaxed state on command. Step to the left side of the horse, and place your left hand at the point where the lead line is connected to the halter, and place your right hand on top of your horse's head. Pull down with your left hand and apply pressure with your right hand. When he lowers his head below the poll, release the pressure and let him relax. The first time you do this, your horse might resist. If he is resisting, you will feel the resistance as pressure against your right hand. So where is he directing his energy? Once again, backwards. So turn his thought into yours and ask him to back up 4 or 5 steps. This puts an energy cost in for the horse each time he resists.
4. Your Horse won't give you his feet.
You pick up the foot of your horse, and he fights to put it down. This time we are going to steal his thought and make the idea of putting his foot down our own. The first step is to pick up the foot of your horse and find out exactly how long he will let you hold his foot and make a mental note of it. Suppose its two seconds. You find this out by counting one-one thousand, two-one thousand and then your horse starts struggling. That's not enough time to clean his feet, much less trim them. To get him to allow us to hold his foot any length of time we want we're going to apply the reverse psychology technique and make putting the foot down our idea.
Start by holding the foot for only 1 second. Pick it up, hold it, even stroke his lower leg, then put the foot down assertively so that he knows you decided to put it down. Do this a few times, and then add an additional second. After several tries he is going to be pretty comfortable letting you hold his feet for 2-3 seconds. So then push it to 4 seconds. But each time you decide to put the foot down, you do it (don't let him) and you do it assertively, maybe even with some slightly exaggerated motion. The idea is to do it so that its your idea to put the foot down. Soon enough, your horse will be letting you handle his feet for as long as you like.
5.Your horse Puts his front feet in the trailer, but won't go any further
If your horse won't get in a trailer, steal his thought by asking him to get out of the trailer. Like catching, you're going to have to learn to read your horse and sense his muscle movements so you know he is about to make a move to back out of the trailer, or start showing signs of discomfort. At the instant he does, then ask him to back out of the trailer.
6.You are leading your horse and ask him to stop, but he takes one or two extra steps
If your horse doesn't stop right away, use psychology to convince him that he isn't really the one looking to take the extra steps. Watch him closely and match your steps with his. Then ask for a stop, and as he begins to take those extra steps, you do it with him. After seeing this a few times your horse is going to think you've gotten wacky and you're the one asking for the extra steps. At that point he will stop taking extra steps when you ask him to stop.
http://gentlenaturalhorseman.blogspot.com
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